Myki Cost

[Bravus]

Correct. This is a good design, too. You want to be able to re-scan the card to make sure you're tagged on if you didn't see the screen. But you don't want it to tag you off!

This can ONLY happen at train stations. Busses and trams do not support "Change of Mind" (for obvious reasons).

Regarding 3AW... it's less credible than gleaning your information off Internet forums. And we all know how reliable THAT is

[bok]

At train stations without ticket barriers passback is 30 seconds. Change of mind is up to 15 minutes from touch on.

Onboard trams passback is 5 seconds. There is no change of mind period.

Onboard buses passback is 30 seconds. There is no change of mind period.

From Victorian Fares and Ticketing Manual (myki) (8.4MB PDF)

The Tram figure seems extremely low. On a crowded tram it could take more than 5 seconds to get past people, perhaps inadvertently touching off again as you go (assuming they get the touch on/off speed down to a second).

-bok

[gwiwer]

On board trams there is no control over what happens with your ticket. It is perfectly possible to pass it to someone else within a few seconds who can the re-scan it. That may affect the set passback time.

Bus drivers have control of boarding and trains will in theory be managed by gates at stations; it has been said elsewhere that at least 80% of all users will pass through a gate at either start or finish of their journey or both.

Interesting to watch the system in action today. Or rather lack of action. Passengers trying to use Myki to board a Cranbourne Transit bus were simply waved on. Then they were able to walk straight through the open barrier at Frankston station without scanning. As they alighted at Edithvale they have therefore had a free ride.

Earlier a group of ten YT AO's had been encountered carrying out a routine alighting check at Victoria Harbour terminus with a portable scanner in use. Passengers offering a Myki had it scanned (no doubt to verify it had been scanned on at a railway station somewhere) and then appeared to have their details taken for travelling without a valid ticket.

You do have to wonder about the interpretation of "discretion" sometimes. And isn't this also supposed to be a period of customer education as well?

[Bravus]

You do have to wonder about the interpretation of "discretion" sometimes. And isn't this also supposed to be a period of customer education as well?

Unless you were privy to what was on the screen of the scanner you are in no position to be able to make such comments. For all you know, those passengers hadn't scanned their cards at all.

[gwiwer]

Quite possible indeed. However the point being made by the AO's was that it was not valid on trams. Not even for the short hop from Southern Cross to Vic Harbour. While I wasn't privvy to what was on screen I was standing adjacent waiting to have my own ticket inspected and was able to clearly hear the conversation in question.

[Bravus]

But myki ISN'T valid on trams. Not between Vermont South terminus and City, and not between stop 33 and stop 34 on the route 86.

I believe it should be opened up on all modes, making clear that the system is in "public testing". But the fact is, it's not valid on trams, so I would be encouraging everyone to stick with Metcards until such a time as myki is multimodal.

[traindreamer]

I believe it should be opened up on all modes, making clear that the system is in "public testing". But the fact is, it's not valid on trams, so I would be encouraging everyone to stick with Metcards until such a time as myki is multimodal.

This is of course is a political problem.
Turning on a multimode ticketing system as a partial only zone 1&2 rail metro only ticket, is a stupid idea.
Its not multimode, that is its big selling feature.
So in fact the people "trialing" donki are in fact people who want a multimodal system.

If it ever works correctly "as advertised" it will be a good system.

Why the vic gov is inventing a new system is for them to explain.
Many systems exist that do identical or almost identical functions.

When it eventualy works Victoria wide. I will be asking for it to work Australia wide.
We have just spent $1 billion on this system thats ok a price for Australia to pay, but a lot for each state to pay individualy.

[gwiwer]

The problems are many and seem to go to the core of the system. It is not as simple as being a political problem, no matter how far from "simple" that concept might be.

Victoria has opted for a system which was promoted as State-wide multimodal and one card fits all. The sheer size of the beast makes it the largest such system ever launched so far as I am aware.

Fares and charges have had to massaged to make them fit the system. Some popular ticket types are being dropped, which has not yet been made widely known, and the system is years late and hugely over budget.

It has been known for some time that it is not, in fact, going to be a State-wide system for a number of reasons. It has been said elsewhere that many regional urban bus operations will not be converted because the cost set against the benefit does not present a strong business case. Wodonga has a joint bus network with nearby Albury which happens to lie across the State border and as such it seems to be too hard to talk to our neighbours and get the system working there.

Yet it will be possible to use Myki for a journey from Murray Bridge (SA) to Canberra (ACT) by way of NSW and Vic. Although that is account the use of V/Line services all the way it still seems odd that the card can be used in three States and one Territory yet getting it to work in one of our own major regional cities is apparently too hard.

The benefits of a single ticketing system are instantly lost. While it is intended that I can (at some future time) board a bus in Ocean Grove and purchase one ticket which will take me to Geelong, by train to Melbourne then by tram to Kew the same is not to be offered to the good people of Albury - Wodonga nor many other regional areas.

The nature of the problem with data transmission to and from moving trams seems to be beyond the capability of anyone to fix at least for now. Other smart card systems where trams are involved use static readers at trams stops. Melbourne chose to go its own way.

I would be surprised to see this system working across all modes as intended this year. It may never do so without wholesale changes and more cost which is ultimately net by the Victorian taxpayer.

Donki

is perhaps not very far from the truth. Turki and Monki are other names I have heard used.

[vicsig]

Fares and charges have had to massaged to make them fit the system. Some popular ticket types are being dropped, which has not yet been made widely known, and the system is years late and hugely over budget.

All the changes to the ticket types have already been made, so your statement about "not yet been made widely known" is wrong, the final ticket types needed for myki are already in use for metcard.

[gwiwer]

10x2-hour is among the Metcard products not being copied onto Myki. I see nothing so far to announce that this product will no longer be available under Myki.

[vicsig]

10x2-hour is among the Metcard products not being copied onto Myki. I see nothing so far to announce that this product will no longer be available under Myki.

The cost of a 10x2hr Zone 1+2 with metcard is $49.60

The cost of a 2hr Zone 1+2 with myki is $4.96 (how strange, it is 1/10th of a 10x2hr price)
The cost of a 2hr Zone 1+2 with metcard is $5.80

So you still get the benefit of the 10x2hr discount with myki, the change is you are not limited to 10 on a ticket, you can use just 1 or 100. This is more flexible then metcard, the cost stays the same for most, but for some it will actually be cheaper (ie the ones that currently buy daily or 2hr tickets and not the 5x and 10x ones).


NOTE: This only applies to Myki Money, not Short Term.

[Bravus]

10x2-hour is among the Metcard products not being copied onto Myki. I see nothing so far to announce that this product will no longer be available under Myki.

Is that the sound of a dead horse being beaten I hear?